Episode 68: Pro athletes who are advocating for greener sports

Molly Wood Voice-Over:

Welcome to Everybody in the Pool, the podcast where we dive deep into the innovative solutions and the brilliant minds who are tackling the climate crisis head-on. I'm Molly Wood. This week, so you may not know this about me but I’m a huge sports fan. In fact, I started my journalism career with the Associated Press where I accidentally ended up being a baby sports reporter before I accidentally became a tech reporter.

And sports are one of those things in the world that when you start to break it down have a huge carbon impact. Stadiums , team travel, fan trash, locker room trash, it’s pretty major. So this week we’re talking to a former pro baseball player who’s trying to get his fellow athletes to clean up the game.

Chris Dickerson:

All right. I'm Chris Dickerson, former major league outfielder and a co-founder of players for the planet and organization. started, my rookie year in Cincinnati, with the goal to bring together professional athletes to unite for a global change. and with the focus on how we can leverage our celebrity and our influence to, bring more environment, environmental awareness to sports fans and address many of the issues that affect our locker rooms and just our general climate and environment in and surrounding all these great stadiums and arenas that we occupy on a nightly basis.

Molly Wood:

When, for people who don't know, how long ago was that? When was your rookie year?

Chris Dickerson:

It was 2000. Well, actually, I wouldn't say it was 2008. It was 2009. I kind of got into it in 2008 by just trying to find a way to address the amount of plastic that was being used within professional sports. And I started that when I was still in the minor leagues in AAA in Louisville, Kentucky, where I did a locker room initiative and tried to integrate reusable water bottles to cut down on the amount of plastic that we were using. particularly in the, in the summer months, guys were just taking, you know, five, six bottles out at a time for batting practice. And, and then when you come back in more plastics being used for pregame and postgame meals. And by the end of the day, you know, there's hundreds on, you know, hundreds and hundreds of empty plastic bottles, in the trash cans.

So by looking into a solution to rid those plastics of the clubhouse. Because after some research, I understood how long plastic bottles stay in the landfill, the harmful chemicals that come from them, the amount of, not the fact that they're produced, we need fossil fuel to produce them. So I sent out a press inquiry to get 50 bottles. And the response from that is really what kind of catapulted the next decision, which was to, you know, pursue more like minded individuals. When I got called up, I saw the response and the, the fan signs for, know, with the, you know, with the planet or the recycling symbol.

So understanding that this was something that people genuinely cared about in using my platform as an individual, would only go so far. So finding other athletes that were environmentally conscious and like minded to support the cause and really kind of offer some diversity to some of the issues and concerns that they may have and how we can create more programming and awareness among sports fans to take home best practices and to educate them about environmental stewardship.

Molly Wood:

Before we hear more about what players for the planet is doing now, you didn't have to care about this, you know? Like what was it that made you concerned about this or made you, because a lot of people use those bottles still. Yeah.

Chris Dickerson:

I'm an LA kid. So my dad was, my dad was a recycling nerd. So he made a makeshift, recycling bin or multiple bins when I was a kid out of PVC pipe. And so he would have, and this is right around the time that California really started, mandating the bins and not necessarily mandating, but, you know, in certain communities you had the yellow bin you had your green bin the black bin the blue bin and then you had no, think that was it the yellow bin for old newspaper blue bin for recyclables black for general landfill and then of course recycling for you know your plastic plastic and glass and so just understanding you know the sorting process why we're doing it what the purpose of recycling is what the what you know what it is in general of made sense to me and were very adamant about, you know, recycling all our stuff.

And then just being a beach kid growing up in LA, you can imagine the amount of people that go to the beach every summer or year round, the amount of waste and trash that's left out, not just the direct effects of the immediate disposal of waste and how that filters back into the water, whether it be plastic bags, you know, the old six pack, you know, the old six pack holders, those are wash out and like, there's nothing freakier than being surfing or being on a boogie board and having that wash up against your leg or getting caught around your, around your leg.

It's, it's not a great feeling. and then you combine that with guys who were getting sick from the toxic runoff from, you know, coast side or coastal communities such as Malibu and you know, Palos Verdes and you know, these really, you know, these really great, beaches where, know, you have these developments and how those, you know, how that waste and those chemicals find a way into the water, but also when it rains, you know, we had, what was it called? El Nino. And so I think looking at it from another perspective is all the amount of waste and oil and like sedimentary stuff that flushes out when it rains into, know, it goes out into the ocean.

So we had some guys get really sick. particularly got sick one summer and it was like, you know, viral infection, which came, you know, came from the ocean, you know, likely caused by those types of, you know, that type of, of runoff and then having kids that couldn't show up to practice because of, because of air quality, you know, kids with asthma. would often mispractice when we had poor air quality. And so all these different, different factors growing up here really kind of put so many things into perspective in our relationship with nature and particularly being in a huge metropolitan city, how it just, not just the human effects, but where we lie in relation to our destruction of natural habitats.

So I grew up with it all. And then in 2007, me and my roommate had this book. He had this book and it was like a thousand ways you can save the planet. And you know, there were some really interesting facts in there and it's just kind of flipping through them. really kind of heightened my awareness to what the global issue is and where what's going to, what can happen if we're not, if we're not careful. And then of course this was coincided with, algors and inconvenient truth. And so it was just a, it was really a number of incidents. I wouldn't say that they're yeah conveniently placed together, but it was definitely a series of, of very fortunate events that started me along this journey. 

Molly Wood:

This for you started as, like you said, a locker room initiative and an attempt to sort of change behavior at the player level and now it's a lot bigger, right? Talk about the kind of evolution from, and I'm so happy to hear that fans were embracing the water bottle change. Like that all by itself is wonderful.

Chris Dickerson:

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's bigger than it. It's, it's ever been, you know, we started with 10, 15 athletes that were, know, they were just so Cal, you know, so Cal athletes. was, you know, it beach volleyball players. was, you know, Anaheim is NHL players, Kings ducks. you know, a couple of buddies that I grew up with that were from the San Fernando Valley and, know, they get it. And so then there was a few individuals that they just started recruiting.

And so 15 became 20 and 20 became 50 and then, and then we kind of hit this, you know, this area and we're not going to go back down the Debbie Downer route, but you know, the fact of the matter is we talk about the sense of urgency and where we're at and more people being educated to the climate crisis. And with that, you started to see more interest in athletes getting on board, you know, as opposed to like 2008, 2010. And it was like, yeah. that's cool, I get it, but I just don't believe in this. you know, the whole thing about climate change being so highly politicized and the divide and our understanding of whether it was a hoax or not.

So that was very difficult is just navigating the different demographics and personalities within the clubhouse. And now you have these young kids that are coming out of college that are studying environmental science. You know, they're volunteering. They've put together student athlete sustainability groups on campus. And, you know, they're being leaders on their own, on their own campus because this generation now understands that there's a serious issue and this is likely going to, you know, vastly affect their future.

And so that is a big reason why we've had this kind of this increase from, you know, just 50 athletes, you know, five years ago to 270 to almost 300. And every week there's, know, there's a new, there's a new athlete that's reaching out and looking to do, looking to do something. But also with that, it's the, it's the, the diversity and their, their understanding, but also their what initiatives they really care about. So we're talking about food systems and understanding how to replenish our crop lands because with modern techniques, we know that that's not gonna last too much longer.

And so looking at food systems, how we're putting nutrients back in the earth through compost, through regenerative agriculture, and then you have are Dominican players and, you know, who looking at the oceans and the plastic that's accumulated the senior use plastic crisis that's happening in Hawaii and the Dominican Republic. And so that's all been really fascinating. And the best part of that is that they're willing to get out there and to lend their voice and their efforts to, to do events and to be vocal about why this is important, but also the communication with their teams and teammates and the front office to really push and to support these.

And while, you know, teams are still kind of apprehensive to put sustainability and climate at the front of, know, their community community pillars, which is, you know, is again, still like a big hurdle that we have to get over. You know, it's, moving forward and, you know, it's a you know, it's exciting to see. It's so exciting because it gives me hope that these athletes are continue to understand the power of their platform and to understand the power that they have with engaging with their, with their communities and their teams to help support and be these beacons of environmental stewardship to start, create more programs to, to, you know, for sports fans to take home.

Molly Wood Voice-Over:

Time for a quick break. When we come back, we’ll break down the absolutely astonishing amount of trash, waste, energy use, and water consumption that goes into a sports game or stadium, hooboy.

Molly Wood Voice-Over:

Welcome back to Everybody in the Pool. We’re talking with Chris Dickerson, former major league baseball player and founder of Players for the Planet.

Molly Wood:

Right. so how does it, so an athlete, so how does it work at the organization level? So an athlete is interested, they sign on, you give them tools to be able to act as ambassadors, it sounds like in their communities, but also with their teams.

Chris Dickerson:

Yeah. So we, we started cause we're getting so many requests. We basically we have like an onboarding document. So it's like who you are, where you're from, where you spend the off season contact information, but really why are you interested in being in players for the planet ambassador? Which one of these, pillars that we have interests you most is it oceans? Is it food systems? Is it single use eliminating, single use plastic? or is this, are you vegan because of, know, environmental purposes? is it, you know, electronic, electronic waste repurpose recycling, all these different factors and then, kind of them announcing themselves and as that is like, they're like, that's particular purpose, but also, you know, things that they might be interested in, things that they've identified within their stadium or their team, their club that needs to be addressed and then how we can use some of the programming that we've built to create events, to bring more attention or changes within the clubhouse.

And so that's really been cool. So we've had a number of players and they're like, Hey, we have to get rid of this, you know, this plastic they're giving us clamshells. giving us, there's plastic bottles everywhere. And it's the only thing we have to choose from. so using our resources. Yeah, you're right. So providing them the tools through our partners and our support groups to provide those tools to kind of you know, reverse, you know, some of those, you know, those kind of organizational tendencies or organization, issues that they have.

So we'll send out, you know, 500, 500 reasonable water bottles or five, you know, or a hundred containers, reuse containers. So if the, you know, if the girls or guys are on the move, they're taking, they're taking a lunch to the field. They're bringing home you know, lunch from the field or post-game meal in reusable containers instead of styrofoam or plastic, providing, you know, compost bins, providing the necessary tools that they need to address what it is they want to do. And for particular, for community events, you know, putting in, community gardens, doing compost workshops, partnering with the teams, be like, hey, we have three individuals on your team that are really passionate about this.

We'd love to do an event with you where we can get some of the youth groups together and we can have something at the stadium or that particular place. So, you know, the Minnesota twins was a great example, going out to the Sane foundation or the Sane center that's in St. Paul, Minnesota. And, know, having access to these, these hundreds and hundreds of kids that come through this summer program. And during this program, they're eating three meals a day, and they're simply just throwing this stuff away. have a community garden.

And it's an at risk neighborhood, where they do a food rescue program. And so really getting these kids understand, like when we throw this away, this is, this is, should be a regenerative process. We're in a community where people don't have a support. don't have access to fresh produce. And we all know that's an epidemic in itself is the food deserts. So having this resource of, of.

of produce in this huge community garden, how are we replenishing this with the stuff that we eat, that we dispose of, teaching them about the importance of sorting, but also just the sorting process of their plastic bottles, their snacks, their utensils, and how we can divert that from landfills. 

So having players come out, having the mascot comes out, it makes it really fun and engaging and vibrant type of event, these kids will remember and coming from, you know, an athlete, they really kind of, seem to engage in this, but also it's another thing that I learned in our work in the Dominican is because we had these players come out and doing these massive cleanups. had 250 athletes from like seven different organizations coming out and picking up, you know, 5,000 pounds of trash. then you're looking around like, okay, we sort this and then they're going to go back to their.

They're complex, these multimillion dollar complexes and there are no recycling bins. So how are we creating ecosystems of change within these facilities to where this becomes a behavior that they can repeat? And so that's when the next element was like, okay, let's get this, this, student center reusable or refill, refill stations to where they can get, we can provide them with reusable water bottles and they can fill with, you know, with something that's not tap tap water.

Chris Dickerson:

Let's put in a couple more compost bins to where we can have, you know, create responsibility and, accountability among these students to go out and pick up trash from the community, sort it properly, and then have somebody, you know, take out the compost and then get out there, churn it. And when it's ready, you're taking that to the big community garden to replant food for, the community.

And so was about changing the facility, you know, it's really changing the facilities and like, that's what we look at with the stadiums now is how are we breaking this down to providing fans and athletes in itself the infrastructure to continue these behaviors? Because we can only say, hey, we shouldn't do this. But at the end of the day, they go back to the locker room or fans go and it's like, I want to bring my reasonable water bottle. I don't want to eat my notches out of clamshell. And they don't have compost. They don't have proper recycling.

Every time I look up, you know, somebody's just dumping, you know, a random item into a recycling bin. So there's kind of a lack of understanding, a lack of education, but also a lack of effort among sports fans and sports organizations to, to really, you know, to really determine and. A philosophy, you know, a complete philosophy of like, this is what we're trying to accomplish. And I think through that, that's where you start to get more buy-in from, from, more fans and athletes.

Molly Wood:

Yeah, talk about that evolution. it goes from, you know, locker room to clubhouse to community to, like you're saying now, stadiums. Just paint the picture for, you know, I am a sports fan, a lifelong sports fan. Like paint the picture for us about how much waste is created at an event like this.

Chris Dickerson:

Dude, it's crazy. so I mean, any given night, like, especially within baseball, you know, we play every single night for six, for six months. It's the only sport that, that does it. play 162 games in 180 days. The average game is going to have 25, maybe 30,000 fans. And let's say each fan statistically creates one and a half pounds of waste. And so you're looking at you know, 15 tons of waste every single night. and whether that's sorted or it's not, you know, we know where that goes.

Either it goes to a landfill and then the plastic that they do have, if they are, if there's not a municipal state or municipal program in place that gets incinerated, that gets incinerated in, you know, most of those incinerators and cyber factories are in, are in, at risk communities, communities of color which often leads to, know, pulmonary and respiratory disease among, the inhabitants. And then at the suite, even at the suite level, we look at the amount of food waste. You know, you come out, you have hot dogs, you have hamburgers, you have all these different things. And maybe you might have a couple of people who eat it, but at the end of the day, at the end of the game, what's not eaten is simply thrown out.

So food waste, we're talking about thousands of pounds of food waste, you know, you know, among the other things is just the amount of packaging, the amount of plastic waste that we create. and that's not looking at the amount of emissions and pollution that goes into all the people, 30,000 people, 40,000 people, all, you know, engaging and, on, you know, one particular area.

for the stadium and there's the logistics of getting all the food there, getting all the fan gear, concessions, things from the shop. There's so much that goes into just one particular evening of baseball.

Molly Wood:

Yeah, I I feel like imagine I feel like for people listening, imagine any party that you've ever had, right? Like how much waste comes out of a party, a house party that you might throw and then imagine that at the scale of 15 to 40,000 people every night.

Chris Dickerson:

Right. Exactly. All the, all the red, the red solo cups. Yeah. The plates, the utensils, the condiments, the, you know, the beer cans, and, and glass bottles that accumulate just from a house party. then, yeah, multiply that by, multiply that by 20 by 20 times. And, you know, and these are particular errors that may not have

Molly Wood:

Yeah.

Chris Dickerson:

comprehensive sorting policies. so a lot of that, yeah, it doesn't get recycled and it doesn't, it, doesn't go back into the earth and it doesn't get recycled. and there are a few clubs and that are doing amazing things and have been doing amazing things for years. The San Francisco Giants, the Seattle Mariners, the Atlanta Falcons, and even, the Washington nationals.

But I mean, as a whole, think the industry has a long way to go because you know, it's not going anywhere. The NFL, know, they're getting, you're getting 70,000 people every Sunday. And that's just, and that's just talking about the game. not talking about, know, we'd love to tailgate, you know, in football. that's, you know, it's more beer, it's more plastic. It's more, it's more waste outside the stadium that's occupying those bins and those waste streams outside the stadium before they even get into the football game. it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a huge issue. And when you look at it under Microsoft, yeah, it's a, it's a massive thing.

And I think that was one of those things that I didn't realize when we started doing e-waste events in Cincinnati, how much stuff that we have and that we dispose of, or that we just don't know how to dispose of. But taking a small, you know, like microcosm of Cincinnati and looking at the, amount of devices that we go through and globally. Yeah, it's daunting at times.

Molly Wood: 

Yeah. Talk about the cultural battle too. mean, think we've seen, unfortunately, like climate has been politicized more and more and more and so have sports in a lot of ways. And I would imagine that in some cases you're talking about trying to appeal to like, look, I know a lot of football fans, right? Most of them are not the ones I talked to about the climate crisis.

Chris Dickerson:

Right, and I think that's one thing I learned early on is seeing the narrative around climate and finding ways to just, I wouldn't say dumb it down, but just to mitigate the political pushback that we often get from, okay, climate is a hoax, blah, blah. Okay, fine. Let's just pretend that it is a hoax. Let's not even mention climate.

Okay, let's look at it from a purely human effect where it is getting, we're overfishing, like we're overfishing the amount of pollution that's in our oceans and rivers. that's, that's not climate. Like that is us, the amount of species that are disappearing, the amount of rain rainforest and, and, and tree cover that's being demolished around the planet, how that's leading to, the disappearance of species because of loss of habitat.

Let's look at the amount of pollution and runoff that that's happening. Let's look at some of these environmental disasters that we're not talking about like tropical storms. Let's look at the thing that happened last year in, in Florida with a, with the massive, the massive runoff from the pesticides and how that led to that massive red tide issue were killed off like half the coast of fish. and yeah, and then, you know, let's look, yeah, just the amount of stuff that we are responsible for is, you know, that in itself is, a huge issue. So, you know, we're not going to talk fine. We're not going to talk about carbon, you know, carbon emissions or greenhouse gas. Let's just look at the destruction that we are causing.

Molly Wood:

Yeah.

Chris Dickerson:

through overconsumption and through just sheer lack of responsibility. And that kind of, that's kind of my, my mediating point. was like, we're, we're looking at the responsibility that we have to, minimize our impact, on a, on a very, on a very small scale. And it's not necessarily the kind of the thing where it's like, I know people struggle with the idea of like, what can I do

But as athletes and fans, like we can all just do one thing and agree that we can just try to buy less. can travel, you know, we can travel less, alternate transportation, you know, to help out air quality. You know, that's the easiest way for them to digest and to have these types of conversations. And while, you know, we're not going to get into like, okay, fossil fuels is causing global warming, you driving your truck or whatever. No, but it is making healthier communities, know, healthier air quality and healthier, healthier communities. again, in this country where we're talking about, you know, healthcare, it's, you know, that is, you know, it's particularly, you know, not everybody has the access to, that type of care.

And this is something that I've been looking at when we have these heat waves as things continue to get hotter, you know, again, it's, you know, it's community, communities of color that often suffer because they don't want to use the air conditioning there it just it goes and it goes and it goes and so I think that's kind of been like the the middle area that I've used when personally I know like you know I've read the climate report and which is like reading the climate port is I don't know how you would it's how you'd explain it's like I just feel like the guy in the matrix where he's just like, know, ignorance is bliss.

Like the less you know, the better off you'll be because it was just like, it's, it's a miserable thing to read and really understand. And I often compare that to if Tom Brady, Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, Lewis Hamilton, all these all time greats wrote a book on how to play their, on how to play their sport and how to compete. Everybody would buy it.

Molly Wood:

Yeah.

Chris Dickerson:

It's no different. Like you're taking these top scientists from the country, from these top scientific organizations, from NASA, from NOAA, you know, around the globe, these national agencies of science, and they're putting together these, these are the best of the best to put together this report telling you this is what's happening. And for some reason we just want to dismiss, you know, the severity of what's happening in these reports.

Molly Wood:

That's a really good way to put it, actually. These are the all-star of all-stars. The last thing I want to ask you about is that it sounds like, as part of the advocacy and even just trying to come up with solution sets that you do, you engage with or at least look at a lot of innovations, right? Like, I know you and I have talked about Sway the Future and some plastic alternatives.

Chris Dickerson:

Right.

Molly Wood:

What do you see that gives you hope that you sort of wish everybody would adopt?

Chris Dickerson:

well, I mean, first, I mean, we just need, we need a materials revolution. Number one, like, you know, what our sports gear, what our sports gear, what we, what we wear, what is made of, you know, what we're, what we're serving our concessions in. can we find something? Cause you know, we went through the whole fad of like, you know, bio, know, bioplastic, but this, you know, this is running into this huge thing over municipal and industrial compost issues in a number of cities where this stuff doesn't actually compost the way it says it does and it's not fit for household compost and it's not fit for most of these the compost in in these stadiums. has to be like serious industrial compost. 

So understanding understanding that understanding what we're providing Individuals what we're packed what we're packaging things in what are, know, how we can create regenerative and repurpose a lot of the ways, particularly within sports, whether it's apparel, whether, you know, how are, you know, creating shoes, how it's being delivered. you know, I've noticed that there's, you know, there's a number of teams that are starting to really bring this up to manufacturers and reducing the amount of single use plastic, how they're receiving their stuff, you know, in single.

in kind of single sachets, like every shirt, every jacket, every pair of cleats, like wrapped in plastic. 

And really kind of, yeah, and looking at it from that aspect. And I think that's just, you know, the starting point from sports is how can we address what, control what we can control? And once we can integrate these best practices, like how can we find manageable ways for the fans to do their...

that themselves and no solar is not going to be a solution for every household. But for most of these stadiums that generate a ton of electricity, there are methods and methods and methodologies they can do, whether it's turning off the lights to 50 % after the game, just enough for the cleaning crew to clean up.

It doesn't necessarily have to be full blast, but this taking the pressure off like the grid and know, particular places that are still, you know, using, you know, coal, coal powered electric grids. It's like all of these individual efforts can make a huge difference. And,

Molly Wood:

Yeah. God, when you really start to, I mean, it is like, it's, mean, I know that it's a systemic problem writ large, but when you start to break down every system that goes into major league sports, like just what you're saying about, you might have multiple uniforms for a single home stand and each one of those will get delivered and apply. Like it just goes on and on and on and on.

Chris Dickerson:

Yeah, where there's Yogi. Yeah, not just, yeah, the uniforms, but the, you know, the water use, you know, just up, you know, of upkeep, know, you look at, you know, LA or especially down here, you know, we have, you know, we've been in a drought for like 40 years, but you also see what's happening with the Colorado river. And you look at the different teams that take all this, you know, all this water that have multiple professional sports teams and. know, they're using like a million and a half, like more than a million gallons of water a year. Like, I mean, it's something crazy.

Molly Wood:

everything.

Chris Dickerson:

So yeah, the system is flawed, but I think understanding the developments and innovations within sports is kind of, you know, is that's, that's essentially our job is to continue to, bring awareness to that. are solutions out there and to have athletes and fans push for more change among their organizations and, you know, continue to find ways to, to connect with, with sports fans and young, young athletes to create change and to be stewards of the environment. and then just, you know, and that starts with our athletes, you know, being at their best, at being at their best, but also, you know, living, you know, living the life and being, you know, true representatives and not just where it's words.

And I think that's what I've taken pride in where there's so many different organizations that like, yeah, well, we care about this, blah, blah. It's easy to say something, but having athletes that are making the effort to come out and to do get their hands dirty, you know, come out and, you know, plant trees and commit their money there, you know, their own money to planting trees. Like we did with the, the play for trees program the last two years and, you know, contributing almost 250,000 trees among all of our athletes, accomplishments or seasonal accomplishments and commitments, you know, with our Dominican, players that how that's carried over to more teams wanting to do things in their own community.

And it may seem small, just taking, you know, a couple of players and 500 volunteers and going out and cleaning up. But the thing is, is like, that behavior is going to sit with individuals and they're going to go out and they're going to be the ones that are doing this around their neighborhood. And that isn't going to go unnoticed. You're going to have a support system where it turns out to be one person. It's five people and you see 10 people. And then you have an entire community that's taken upon themselves to do their very best and be stewards of their community. And like, that's how you see real change and how, whatever that seed is, you know, I like to think that we want to do the most to provide the opportunities for those seeds to grow using professional sports to be that catalyst to change.

Molly Wood:

Chris Dickerson is a founder of Players for the Planet. Thank you so much for the time. I appreciate it.

Molly Wood Voice-Over:

That's it for this episode of Everybody in the Pool. Thank you so much for listening, I appreciate you.

Email me your thoughts and suggestions to in at everybody in the pool dot com and find all the latest episodes and more at everybody in the pool dot com, the website. Because together, we can get this done. See you next week.